Arian polemicist and the founder of Christian Witnesses of Jah Greg Stafford cites the following passage where the Angel asks YHWH how long would he show no compassion to Judah in order to prove that the Angel isn’t omniscient:

“So they answered the angel of Yahweh who was standing among the myrtle trees and said, ‘We have patrolled the earth, and behold, all the earth is sitting still and quiet.’ Then the angel of Yahweh answered and said, “O Yahweh of hosts, how long will You have no compassion for Jerusalem and the cities of Judah, with which You have been indignant these seventy years?’ Yahweh answered the angel who was speaking with me with good words, comforting words. So the angel who was speaking with me said to me, ‘Call out, saying, “Thus says Yahweh of hosts, ‘I am exceedingly jealous for Jerusalem and Zion. But I am very wrathful with the nations who are at ease; for I was only a little wrathful, but they helped increase the calamity.’ Therefore thus says Yahweh, ‘I will return to Jerusalem with compassion; My house will be built in it,’ declares Yahweh of hosts, ‘and a measuring line will be stretched over Jerusalem.’” Again, call out, saying, “Thus says Yahweh of hosts, ‘My cities will again overflow with good, and Yahweh will again comfort Zion and again choose Jerusalem.’”’” Zechariah 1:11-17 Legacy Standard Bible (LSB)

Stafford’s point is to show that the Angel cannot be God if he doesn’t know all things, or doesn’t know what YHWH knows, and needs to require information from YHWH.

The problem here is that Stafford has grossly misread the text since the Angel isn’t asking due to his ignorance. Rather, the Angel is interceding with God in order to move him to show compassion, which is precisely what God did, and all because of the Angel’s intercession!  

This is confirmed later in Zechariah where the Angel is depicted as defending Joshua the high priest from Satan’s false accusation, which is exactly what a mediator/intercessor does:

“Then he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of Yahweh, and Satan standing at his right hand to accuse him. And Yahweh said to Satan, ‘Yahweh rebuke you, Satan! Indeed, Yahweh who has chosen Jerusalem rebuke you! Is this not a brand delivered from the fire?’ Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments and standing before the angel. And he answered and spoke to those who were standing before him, saying, ‘Remove the filthy garments from him.’ Again he [the angel] said to him, ‘See, I have made your iniquity pass away from you and will clothe you with festal robes.’” Zechariah 3:1-4 LSB

Therefore, the Angel wasn’t asking out of ignorance but was rather interceding on behalf of the Jews in order to cause YHWH to remove his displeasure and wrath from his covenant people.

Stafford shouldn’t be surprised by this since the Holy Bible is replete with cases where God/Christ asks questions not of ignorance, but out of anger, disgust and/or to invoke a response:

“Yahweh said to Moses, ‘How long will this people spurn Me? And how long will they not believe in Me, despite all the signs which I have done in their midst?’” Numbers 14:11 LSB

“And when they came to the crowd, a man came up to Jesus, falling on his knees before Him and saying, ‘Lord, have mercy on my son, for he has seizures and suffers terribly; for he often falls into the fire and often into the water. And I brought him to Your disciples, and they could not cure him.’And Jesus answered and said, ‘O you unbelieving and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I put up with you? Bring him here to Me.’ And Jesus rebuked him, and the demon came out of him, and the boy was cured at once.” Matthew 17:14-18 LSB

“So when they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, ‘Simon, son of John, do you love Me more than these?’ He said to Him, ‘Yes, Lord; You know that I love You.’ He said to him, ‘Tend My lambs.’ He said to him again a second time, ‘Simon, son of John, do you love Me? He said to Him, ‘Yes, Lord; You know that I love You.’ He said to him, ‘Shepherd My sheep.’ He said to him the third time, ‘Simon, son of John, do you love Me?” Peter was grieved because He said to him the third time, ‘Do you love Me?’ And he said to Him, ‘Lord, You know all things; You know that I love You.’ Jesus said to him, ‘Tend My sheep. Truly, truly, I say to you, when you were younger, you used to gird yourself and walk wherever you wished; but when you grow old, you will stretch out your hands and someone else will gird you, and bring you where you do not wish to go.’ Now this He said, signifying by what kind of death he would glorify God. And when He had spoken this, He said to him, ‘Follow Me!’ Peter, turning around, saw the disciple whom Jesus loved following them; the one who also had leaned back on His bosom at the supper and said, ‘Lord, who is the one who betrays You?’ So Peter seeing him said to Jesus, ‘Lord, and what about this man?’ Jesus said to him, ‘If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you? You follow Me!’ Therefore this saying went out among the brothers that this disciple would not die; yet Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, but only, ‘If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you?’” John 21:15-23 LSB

Now lest I be accused of twisting the intended meaning of the Angel’s words I cite a host of biblical expositors who all see it the way I do. All emphasis will be mine:

12. The intercession of the angel of the Lord reveals that the return of exiles from Babylon was not in itself regarded as fulfilment of the prophecy of Jeremiah 29:10. Jerusalem and the cities of Judah needed to be rebuilt. Though there is no specific mention of the temple, its reconstruction is implied…

13. Though it was the angel of the Lord who had interceded in the previous verse, God’s answer comes direct to Zechariah’s interpreting angel, through him to the prophet, and finally is proclaimed to the people. This is an interesting example of the role of mediators in the post-exilic period. It is not clear whether the interpreting angel passes on all that he hears or whether he has the more active role of selecting the message. What is noted is that they were gracious and comforting words (cf. Isa. 40:1, 2). (Joyce G. Baldwin, Haggai, Zechariah and Malachi: An Introduction and Commentary, vol. 28, Tyndale Old Testament Commentaries (Downers Grove, IL: InterVarsity Press, 1972), 102–104)

1:12–13 The angel of the Lord finally delivered the message of divine intervention. One might normally anticipate a lament bemoaning the lack of peace in Israel (see Jer 47:6–7). In vv. 12–13 the lament resulted from the existence of peace—a peace that enslaved Israel and hindered what God intended to do through his people on a global scale. The news of peace on earth must have disheartened God’s people, moving the angel of the Lord to intercede for a speedy resolution to the crisis and an end to the period of exile foretold by Jeremiah (25:11–12). Instead of the peace that the people expected and the angel of the Lord prayed for, the “shaking” from on high would usher in God’s glory and his full favor to Zion. Similarly, Hag 2:6–7 states,

This is what the Lord Almighty says: “In a little while I will once more shake the heavens and the earth, the sea and the dry land. I will shake all nations, and the desired of all nations will come, and I will fill this house with glory,” says the Lord Almighty.

The angel of the Lord’s intercessory prayer marks the beginning of the end of the Babylonian exile. The seventy-year exile Jeremiah prophesied would conclude shortly. (George L. Klein, Zechariah, vol. 21B, The New American Commentary (Nashville, TN: B & H Publishing Group, 2008), 101–102)

And the Angel of the Lord answered – the implied longing, by intercession with God. As the angel-interpreter in Job had “the office of no mere created angel, but one, anticipative of His, who came at once to redeem and justify,” so the Angel of the Lord, in whom God was, exercised at once a mediatorial office with God, typical of our Lord’s high priest’s prayer John 17, and acted as God. (Barnes’ Notes on the Bible)

answered and said—said in continuation of the discourse: proceeded to say.

how long—Messiah’s people pray similarly to their Head. Re 6:10, “How long,” &c. Heretofore it was vain to pray, but now that the divinely appointed “threescore and ten years” (Jer 25:11; 29:10) are elapsed, it is time to pray to Thee for the fulfilment of Thy promise, seeing that Thy grace is not yet fully manifested, nor Thy promise fulfilled. God’s promises are not to make us slothful, but to quicken our prayers. Henderson, dating the seventy years from the destruction of Jerusalem (588 B.C.), supposes two years of the seventy had yet to run (520 B.C.). (Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary)

Then the {m} angel of the LORD answered and said, O LORD of hosts, how long wilt thou not have mercy on Jerusalem and on the cities of Judah, against which thou hast had indignation these threescore and ten years?

(m) That is, Christ the mediator prayed for the salvation of his Church, which was now troubled, when all the countries about them were at rest. (Geneva Study Bible)

12. answered] The word does not necessarily mean replied to a question, but has here, as elsewhere, the more general signification of speaking in a manner corresponding, or “answering” to the circumstances described and the feelings called forth by them (comp. Job 3:2 (margin); Daniel 2:26; Acts 5:8). Pitying Zechariah and his countrymen in the disappointment, which the answer of the horsemen (Zechariah 1:11) could not fail to cause them, inasmuch as it told of rest and quiet, whereas the “shaking of all nations” was the predicted sign of returning favour to Zion (Haggai 2:7; Haggai 2:21-22), the Angel proceeds to speak “answerably” to this feeling, in the intercession which he now offers on their behalf. His sympathy and intercession make it probable, as Calvin remarks (though he offers the alternative of its being any angel you please), that this Angel of the Lord was “Christ the Mediator.” (Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges)

Verse 12. – Answered. He answered the feeling in the prophet’s mind, the unexpressed longing of his heart. O Lord of hosts. The angel is the intercessor for the people. So Christ prays to the Father (John 17.). How long wilt thou not have mercy, etc.? He prays that the weary waiting for deliverance may speedily come to an end, and Jerusalem be restored, and Judaea be again inhabited by a happy population. These three score and ten years. The predicted seventy years of captivity (Jeremiah 25:11; Jeremiah 29:10) were past; it was time that the punishment should cease. There are two computations of this period. The first dates from the first capture of Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzar, B.C. 606, when Judaea was made tributary to Babylon (2 Kings 24:1: 2 Chronicles 36:6; Daniel 1:1, etc.), unto the return of the company of exiles under Zerubbabel, B.C. 536; the second dates from the final destruction of Jerusalem, B.C. 588, unto the second year of Darius, B.C. 519, when Zechariah saw these visions. However reckoned, the dark period was now over; might they not now expect the commotion among the nations which was to precede their own restitution? Zechariah 1:12 (Pulpit Commentary)

Again, the circumstance that in Zechariah 1:12 the angel of the Lord presents a petition to the Supreme God on behalf of the covenant nation, and that according to Zechariah 1:13 Jehovah answers the angelus interpres in good, comforting words, does not prove that he who receives the answer must be the same person as the intercessor: for it might be stated in reply to this, as it has been by Vitringa, that Zechariah has simply omitted to mention that the answer was first of all addressed to the angel of the Lord, and that it was through him that it reached the mediating angel; or we might assume, as Hengstenberg has done, that “Jehovah addressed the answer directly to the mediating angel, because the angel of the Lord had asked the question, not for his own sake, but simply for the purpose of conveying consolation and hope through the mediator to the prophet, and through him to the nation generally.” (Keil and Delitzsch Biblical Commentary on the Old Testament)

12. Not only does Messiah stand among His people (the “myrtles,” Zec 1:8), but intercedes for them with the Father (“Lord,” or “Jehovah of hosts”) effectively (Zec 1:13; Heb 7:25). Compare Ps 102:13-20; Isa 62:6, 7, as to Judah’s restoration in answer to prayer.

1:7-17 The prophet saw a dark, shady grove, hidden by hills. This represented the low, melancholy condition of the Jewish church. A man like a warrior sat on a red horse, in the midst of this shady myrtle-grove. Though the church was in a low condition, Christ was present in the midst, ready to appear for the relief of his people. Behind him were angels ready to be employed by him, some in acts of judgment, others of mercy, others in mixed events. Would we know something of the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, we must apply, not to angels, for they are themselves learners, but to Christ himself. He is ready to teach those humbly desirous to learn the things of God. The nations near Judea enjoyed peace at that time, but the state of the Jews was unsettled, which gave rise to the pleading that followed; but mercy must only be hoped for through Christ. His intercession for his church prevails. The Lord answered the Angel, this Angel of the covenant, with promises of mercy and deliverance. All the good words and comfortable words of the gospel we receive from Jesus Christ, as he received them from the Father, in answer to the prayer of his blood; and his ministers are to preach them to all the world. The earth sat still, and was at rest. It is not uncommon for the enemies of God to be at rest in sin, while his people are enduring correction, harassed by temptation, disquieted by fears of wrath, or groaning under oppression and persecution. Here are predictions which had reference to the revival of the Jews after the captivity, but those events were shadows of what shall take place in the church, after the oppression of the New Testament Babylon is ended. (Matthew Henry’s Concise Commentary)

Then, when the surveying angels had made their report of the prosperity of the heathen, the angel of the Lord, the Angel, the Lord Christ, Mediator of the church, and Head of the church, answered and said; prays as one interceding.

O Lord of hosts: Christ speaks to his Father, speaks as one much affected with the state of his afflicted church.

How long wilt thou not have mercy? it is the expostulation that well befits a praying soul; it is not the inquiry of a discontented mind, but the request of one longing for mercy. So David, Psalm 13:1,2; and the souls under the altar, Revelation 6:10…

Then, when the surveying angels had made their report of the prosperity of the heathen, the angel of the Lord, the Angel, the Lord Christ, Mediator of the church, and Head of the church, answered and said; prays as one interceding.

O Lord of hosts: Christ speaks to his Father, speaks as one much affected with the state of his afflicted church. (Matthew Poole’s Commentary)

O Lord of hosts, how long wilt thou not have mercy on Jerusalem, and on the cities of Judah; which were fallen to ruin, and had lain waste for many years. These words are expressive of the intercession of Christ on the behalf of the people of the Jews, his professing people, both with respect to their temporal and spiritual good…

And the LORD answered the angel that talked with me with good words and comfortable words.

And the Lord answered the angel that talked with me,…. See Zechariah 1:9 what was the effect of Christ’s intercession for the people of the Jews, was communicated to a ministering angel, and by him to the Prophet Zechariah:

with good words, and comfortable words; such as would be for the good and comfort of God’s people, as follows; see Isaiah 40:1. (Gill’s Exposition of the Entire Bible)

Therefore, the text of Zechariah does nothing to undermine the omniscience or essential Deity of YHWH’s Messenger. Instead, it merely highlights the power and influence that this Angel has in moving YHWH to do what he desires. YHWH’s Angel did/does what the Lord Jesus Christ does in procuring the forgiveness and glorification of all believers by the power of his intercession:

“But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. And not only this, but we also boast in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.” Romans 5:8-11

“What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? He who indeed did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him graciously give us all things? Who will bring a charge against God’s elect? God is the one who justifies; who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us. Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will affliction, or turmoil, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Just as it is written, ‘For Your sake we are being put to death all day long; We were counted as sheep for the slaughter.’ But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor rulers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.” Romans 8:31-39

“Who rescued us from the authority of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of the Son of His love, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins. Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For in Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, And in Him all things hold together. And He is the head of the body, the church; Who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything. For in Him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, And through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross—through Him—whether things on earth or things in heaven.” Colossians 1:13-20  

“And the former priests, on the one hand, existed in greater numbers because they were prevented by death from continuing, but Jesus, on the other hand, because He continues forever, holds His priesthood permanently. Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them. For it was fitting for us to have such a high priest, holy, innocent, undefiled, separated from sinners and exalted above the heavens; who does not need daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people, because this He did once for all when He offered up Himself. For the Law appoints men as high priests who are weak, but the word of the oath, which came after the Law, appoints a Son, who has been made perfect forever.” Hebrews 7:23-28

And the reason is obvious, namely, this specific Angel is not a creature but happens to be none other than Christ himself in his prehuman existence.

FURTHER READING

JUDE’S EPISTLE VERSUS ARIANISM

JUDE’S EPISTLE REFUTES ARIANISM

ADDENDUM

Make sure to read this first: JUDE’S EPISTLE VERSUS ARIANISM.

It seems that not all the verses where YHWH speaks in the third person are cases of YHWH referring to himself. It may be an indication of the fact that YHWH is referring to another divine Person as YHWH God Almighty.

For instance, in the following passages YHWH threatens to overthrow certain kingdoms an cities in the same way that God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah:

“Here I am raising up against them the Medes, Who regard silver as nothing And who take no delight in gold. Their bows will shatter young men; They will show no pity on the fruit of the womb Nor mercy to children. And Babylon, the most glorious of kingdoms, The beauty and the pride of the Chal·deʹans, Will be like Sodʹom and Go·morʹrah when God overthrew them.” Isaiah 13:17-19

“This is what Jehovah of armies says: ‘The people of Israel and Judah are oppressed, And all those taking them captive have held onto them. They have refused to let them go. But their Repurchaser is strong. Jehovah of armies is his name. He will surely plead their legal case, In order to give rest to the land And to bring agitation to the inhabitants of Babylon. There is a sword against the Chal·deʹans,’ declares Jehovah, ‘Against the inhabitants of Babylon and against her princes and against her wise ones… Just as with God’s overthrow of Sodʹom and Go·morʹrah and of their neighboring towns,’ declares Jehovah, ‘no one will dwell there, and no man will settle there.’” Jeremiah 50:33-35, 40

“‘I caused an overthrow among you Like God’s overthrow of Sodʹom and Go·morʹrah. And you were like a log snatched out of the fire; But you did not come back to me,’ declares Jehovah.” Amos 4:11

Notice that God did not say he would overthrow these places just as HE overthrew Sodom, Gomorrah and its neighboring environs. Instead, YHWH speaks of God doing so as if some other Divine Person had actually destroyed these places during the time of Abraham.

And, lo and behold, this is precisely what we find!

According to Genesis 18 YHWH himself appeared on earth in the form of a man with two others to Abraham to announce the upcoming birth of Isaac and to disclose his plans of personally going down to Sodom in order to verify just how wicked it had become. Even more astonishing is that the passage explicitly states that God actually ate human food!

“Afterward, Jehovah appeared to him among the big trees of Mamʹre while he was sitting at the entrance of the tent during the hottest part of the day. He looked up and saw three men standing some distance from him. When he saw them, he ran from the entrance of the tent to meet them, and he bowed down to the ground.  Then he said: ‘Jehovah, if I have found favor in your eyes, please do not pass by your servant. Please, let a little water be brought and have your feet washed; then recline under the tree.  Seeing that you have come here to your servant, let me bring a piece of bread so that you may refresh yourselves. Then you may go on your way.’ At this they said: ‘All right. You may do as you have spoken.’

“So Abraham hurried to the tent to Sarah and said: ‘Quick! Get three measures of fine flour, knead the dough, and make loaves of bread.’ Next Abraham ran to the herd and chose a tender and good young bull. He gave it to the attendant, who hurried to prepare it. He then took butter and milk and the young bull that he had prepared and set the food before them. Then he stood by them under the tree as they were eating. 

“They said to him: ‘Where is your wife Sarah?’ He replied: ‘Here in the tent.’ So one of them continued: ‘I will surely return to you next year at this time, and look! your wife Sarah will have a son.’ Now Sarah was listening at the tent entrance, which was behind the man. Abraham and Sarah were old, being advanced in years. Sarah was past the age of childbearing. So Sarah began to laugh to herself, saying: ‘After I am worn out and my lord is old, will I really have this pleasure?’ Then Jehovah said to Abraham: ‘Why did Sarah laugh and say, “Am I really going to give birth even though I am old?” Is anything too extraordinary for Jehovah? I will return to you next year at this appointed time, and Sarah will have a son.’  But Sarah denied it, saying, ‘I did not laugh!” for she was afraid. At this he said: ‘Yes! You did laugh.’

“When the men got up to leave and looked down toward Sodʹom, Abraham was walking with them to escort them. Jehovah said: ‘Am I keeping hidden from Abraham what I am going to do? Why, Abraham is surely going to become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth will be blessed by means of him. For I have come to know him in order that he may command his sons and his household after him to keep Jehovah’s way by doing what is right and just, so that Jehovah may bring about what he has promised concerning Abraham.’

“Then Jehovah said: ‘The outcry against Sodʹom and Go·morʹrah is indeed great, and their sin is very heavy. I will go down to see whether they are acting according to the outcry that has reached me. And if not, I can get to know it.’ Then the men left from there and went toward Sodʹom, but Jehovah remained with Abraham.

“Then Abraham approached and said: ‘Will you really sweep away the righteous with the wicked? Suppose there are 50 righteous men within the city. Will you, then, sweep them away and not pardon the place for the sake of the 50 righteous who are inside it? It is unthinkable that you would act in this manner by putting the righteous man to death with the wicked one so that the outcome for the righteous man and the wicked is the same! It is unthinkable of you. Will the Judge of all the earth not do what is right?’ Then Jehovah said: ‘If I find in Sodʹom 50 righteous men in the city, I will pardon the whole place for their sake.’ But Abraham again responded: ‘Please, here I have presumed to speak to Jehovah, whereas I am dust and ashes. Suppose the 50 righteous should lack five. Because of the five will you destroy the whole city?’ To this he said: ‘I will not destroy it if I find there 45.’

“But yet again he spoke to him and said: ‘Suppose 40 are found there.’ He answered: ‘I will not do it for the sake of the 40.’ But he continued: ‘Jehovah, please, do not become hot with anger, but let me go on speaking: Suppose only 30 are found there.’ He answered: ‘I will not do it if I find 30 there.’ But he continued: ‘Please, here I have presumed to speak to Jehovah: Suppose only 20 are found there.” He answered: ‘I will not destroy it for the sake of the 20.’ Finally he said: ‘Jehovah, please, do not become hot with anger, but let me speak just once more: Suppose only ten are found there.” He answered: ‘ will not destroy it for the sake of the ten.’ When Jehovah finished speaking to Abraham, he went his way and Abraham returned to his place.” Genesis 18:1-33

We are then told in the very next chapter that the YHWH who appeared on earth brought down sulfur and fire upon these wicked cities from the YHWH dwelling in the heavens above!

“The sun had risen over the land when Lot arrived at Zoʹar.  Then Jehovah made it rain sulfur and fire on Sodʹom and Go·morʹrah—it came from Jehovah, from the heavens. So he overthrew these cities, yes, the entire district, including all the inhabitants of the cities and the plants of the ground. But Lot’s wife, who was behind him, began to look back, and she became a pillar of salt. Now Abraham got up early in the morning and went to the place where he had stood before Jehovah. When he looked down toward Sodʹom and Go·morʹrah and all the land of the district, he saw quite a sight. There was dense smoke rising from the land like the dense smoke of a kiln!  So when God destroyed the cities of the district, God kept Abraham in mind by sending Lot out from the cities he overthrew, the cities where Lot had been dwelling.” Genesis 19:24-29

Here’s a slew of translations of the key text in question:

“Then Jehovah rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from Jehovah out of heaven;” Gen. 19:24 ASV

“And the Lord (Kyrios) rained on Sodom and Gomorrha brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven (para Kyriou ek ouranou).” LXX

“Then out of the sky the Lord rained on Sodom and Gomorrah burning sulfur from the Lord.” CSB

“Then Adonai caused sulfur and fire to rain down upon S’dom and ‘Amora from Adonai out of the sky.”

CJB

“And Yahweh rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from Yahweh out of heaven,” LSB

“Yahweh rained down from heaven upon Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from Yahweh.” LEB

“Then God rained brimstone and fire down on Sodom and Gomorrah—a river of lava from God out of the sky!—and destroyed these cities and the entire plain and everyone who lived in the cities and everything that grew from the ground.” MSG

“Then the Lord rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from the Lord out of the heavens.” NIV

“Then the Lord rained on Sodom and Gomorrah sulfur and fire from the Lord out of heaven,” NRSVUE

“Then Hashem rained upon Sodom and upon Amora gofrit and eish from Hashem out of Shomayim;” OJB

“Then the Lord rained on Sodom and Gomor′rah brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven;” RSV

“and Adonai rained sulfur and fire upon Sodom and Gomorrah from Adonai out of the sky.” TLV

“Then Yahweh rained on Sodom and on Gomorrah sulfur and fire from Yahweh out of the sky.” WEB

“and Jehovah hath rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from Jehovah, from the heavens;” YLT

This verse even caused the rabbis serious issues in combating Christians as I document in the following post: JWS, RABBIS & THE 2 YHWHS OF GEN. 18-19.

What this text shows is that one of the reasons why God speaks in the third person throughout the Hebrew Bible is because he is addressing the other divine Person(s) of the Godhead.

In this post I will be addressing the claims made by the anti-Trinitarian polemicist and arian apologist Greg Stafford in respect to the epistle of Jude. Stafford seeks to employ Jude’s statement about Michael to refute the Trinitarian position that the Angel of YHWH who appears all throughout the Hebrew Bible is not a creature.

The following comments where Stafford was responding to a Trinitarian can be found here. : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFpczOK4Bxw&lc=UgyiRox5wYNq2QundZB4AaABAg.

@CWJahTube

You missed the whole point, numb nuts. Neither can rebuke Satan and ask YHWH to do it, proving neither one is YHWH. When you actually watch the video and demonstrate understanding of my points, we can try again. Until then, you just humiliated yourself by showing you can’t answer me! We win again!

@CWJahTube Also, the “Angel of YHWH” is appointed over Israel in Exodus 23, which is why he’s contesting Joshua with Satan in Zechariah. So why is Michael there according to Jude doing the same thing, to the same person, using the same words which defer to YHWH? Because neither is YHWH and Michael is the Angel of Jaho(h). The Catholic faith is a Dragon perversion of the Bible. Get out while you still can and worship “one God, the Father”!–1 Corinthians 8:4-6.  

@CWJahTube

 @Doc7-mf2fe  You just sodomized yourself. Congratulations!

@CWJahTube @edvinekberg  Thanks, but you’re still not listening. The angel of the Lord uses the same words Jude says Michael used to Satan and which words show he deferred to God, instead of addressing Satan directly. If the angel of YHWH is YHWH, and not Michael, why does he use the same words as Michael and defer to YHWH? Answer this question, please, since you keep missing or ignoring it.  

@CWJahTube

@edvinekberg  The angel speaks as the Lord in Zechariah for the same reason he does in Acts 7:30-31. There, like here, an angel is explicitly identified as speaking as the “Lord.” But apart from speaking for the Lord, the angels are not the Lord, which is why the angels cannot rebuke Satan, even when speaking as YHWH. God addresses Satan directly when he comes before him at the time for such meetings as we see in Job (1:6; 2:1) and in the Psalms (82:1-10). The Bible also teaches all of God’s spirits are “made spirits” (Hebrews 1:1, 13, quoting the Psalms), further proving the angel of YHWH cannot be God.

@CWJahTube

@edvinekberg  I already explained that Jude proves deferring to YHWH like Michael did, with the same words, means you’re not YHWH. You agree with me they both defer to YHWH, PROVING neither Michael or the angel of YHWH are YHWH, which is also obvious from Hebrews 1:7, 13, quoting Psalms, PROVING all angels are “made spirits.” So too summarize: 1. Neither Michael or the angel of YHWH are YHWH as they both avoid rebuking Satan using the same words and ASK YHWH TO REBUKE SATAN, which makes no sense if either one is YHWH (and you know it), and 2. Michael and the angel of YHWH are spirits sent forth for service just like Hebrews and Psalms teaches, PROVING Michael and the angel of YHWH are “made spirits.” **GAME OVER**

@CWJahTube

 @edvinekberg  Again, they’re angels! God is not an angel. You guys are crazy…

@CWJahTube

@edvinekberg  Deferring to someone else to do something means you’re not that someone, in this case YHWH. That’s why Jude wrote the same thing about Michael’s use of the SAME WORDS! I’m still waiting for how anything in this video is “bad” as you wrote in your first comment. You haven’t shown one single thing wrong with my arguments and you continue avoiding the main points. Nice job making our side look good and your side look pathetic and unbiblical!

@CWJahTube

@edvinekberg  Obviously, you don’t understand how God talks DIRECTLY AS GOD THROUGH ANGELS. Did you read Acts 7? How many times does it say ANGELS were saying what GOD said? Did you read Exodus 23? What does it say God does with his angel? He speaks and the angels then speaks for and as him. It’s really simple and it has nothing to do with the Trinity, which is why ANGELS CANT REBUKE SATAN **and why** ALL ANGELS ARE “MADE SPIRITS.” You have not and you CANNOT answer these arguments.

@CWJahTube

@edvinekberg  You worship angels as God in total violation of Colossians 2:18. Heretic! God is not an angel. Trinitarians worship angels everyone, the “made spirits” of Hebrews 1:7, 13 and the Psalms!

@CWJahTube

@edvinekberg  Again, you are not listening. What does Jude use Michael’s words to Satan to prove? I guarantee you won’t answer this, because if you do it’s over… and you know it. Hence, you keep avoiding Jude!

@CWJahTube

@edvinekberg  God speaks through the angel, just as the text says, to tell Satan the angel isn’t going to rebuke him. Because only God can! You just lost if that was all you have left, since that is in fact my whole point!

@CWJahTube @edvinekberg  Hebrews 1:7 and 13 says “He MAKES HIS ANGELS SPIRITS.” So you’re missing the point. I know angels are messengers, but Hebrews and Psalms aren’t talking about human spirits! These are called “flames of fire.” Those messengers are all also called “made spirits” The angel of YHWH is one of “his angels” who are MADE SPIRITS in Hebrews and in Psalms. **GAME OVER**  

@CWJahTube

@edvinekberg  I already answered how God speaking through the angel of YHWH is telling Satan the angel isn’t going to rebuke him but God will, just like I’ve been telling you! I answered you on this 4 hours ago and even cited Job 1:6 and 2:1 and Pslam [sic] 82 as examples of how God meets with Satan, which is not through Michael or the angel of YHWH, both of whom are “made spirits.” Since you’re no longer listening and repeating your already answered arguments, please stop posting. You had plenty of time and you failed. One last time: deferring to someone else like Micheal did proves you’re not that someone else per Jude, so neither Michael or the angel of YHWH are YHWH. Also, Hebrews and Psalms proves God’s angels are servants and “made spirits,” including Michael and the angel of YHWH, PROVING again neither is YHWH.

DIFFERING CONTEXTS

Besides the fact that Stafford is all over the place in his “responses,” his claims about Zechariah 3:2 and Jude 1:9 are simply fallacious. A careful reading of these texts shows that they are not at all analogous and the reasons given for YHWH’s Angel and Michael employing the phrase “the Lord rebuke you” are not even the same.

Jude explicitly states that Michael knew better than to go up against Satan to condemn him, which is why he had to invoke the Lord to do so:  

“Michael didn’t dare to judge the devil. He didn’t say the devil was guilty of saying evil things. Instead, Michael said, ‘May the Lord judge you!’” NIRV  

However, nowhere in Zechariah are we told that this is the reason for YHWH’s Angel invoking the same formula. In fact, unlike what we find in the case of Michael, the Angel in Zechariah is expressly identified as YHWH, which is why he even has the power to forgive sins even though this is something only YHWH does:

“Then he showed me Joshua, the chief priest, standing in front of the Messenger of Yahweh. Satan the Accuser was standing at Joshua’s right side to accuse him.Yahweh said to Satan, “I, Yahweh, silence you, Satan! I, Yahweh, who has chosen Jerusalem, silence you! Isn’t this man like a burning log snatched from a fire?’ Joshua was wearing filthy clothes and was standing in front of the Messenger. The Messenger said to those who were standing in front of him, ‘Remove Joshua’s filthy clothes.’ Then he said to Joshua, “See, I have taken your sin away from you, and I will dress you in fine clothing.’” Zechariah 3:1-4 NOG – Cf. Exod. 23:20-23; Mark 2:5-12

Therefore, the employment of the same formula by YHWH’s Angel does nothing to prove that he did not have the authority to rebuke Satan since the context is not the same as that of Jude 1:8-9.

This is why the following commentary aptly notes in reference to Zech. 3:2 and any alleged connection with Jude 1:9:

(Note: The application made in the Epistle of Jude (Jde 1:9) of the formula “Jehovah rebuke thee,” namely, that Michael the archangel did not venture to execute upon Satan the κρίσις βλασφημίας, does not warrant the conclusion that the angel of the Lord places himself below Jehovah by these words. The words “Jehovah rebuke thee” are a standing formula for the utterance of the threat of a divine judgment, from which no conclusion can be drawn as to the relation in which the person using it stood to God. Moreover, Jude had not our vision in his mind, but another event, which has not been preserved in the canonical Scriptures.) (Keil and Delitzsch Biblical Commentary on the Old Testament; emphasis mine)

All this proves is how desperate Stafford is to find something, anything, that will help his case. Stafford’s objections simply highlight just how utterly weak and flimsy his case against the Trinity happens to be.

GOD SPEAKS OF HIMSELF IN THE THIRD PERSON

This leads me to my next point.

All throughout the God-breathed Scriptures we find cases where YHWH refers to himself in the third person:

“Behold, I am going to awaken the Medes against them, Who will not think about silver or take pleasure in gold. And their bows will dash the young men to pieces, They will not even have compassion on the fruit of the womb, Nor will their eye pity children. And it will be that Babylon, the beauty of kingdoms, the honor of the Chaldeans’ pride, Will be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.” Isaiah 13:17-19  

“Thus says Yahweh of hosts, ‘The sons of Israel are oppressed, And the sons of Judah as well; And all who took them captive have held them fast; They have refused to let them go. Their Redeemer is strong, Yahweh of hosts is His name; HE will vigorously plead their case So that HE may bring relief to the earth, But turmoil to the inhabitants of Babylon. A sword against the Chaldeans,’ declares Yahweh, ‘And against the inhabitants of Babylon And against her officials and her wise men!… Therefore the desert creatures will live there along with the jackals; The ostriches also will live in it, And it will never again be lived in Or dwelt in from generation to generation. As when God overthrew Sodom And Gomorrah with its neighbors,’ declares Yahweh, ‘No man will live there, Nor will any son of man sojourn in it.’” Jeremiah 50:33-35, 39-40  

“‘I overthrew you as God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah, And you were like a firebrand delivered from a blaze; Yet you have not returned to Me,’ declares Yahweh.” Amos 4:11  

“Yahweh also said to Moses, ‘Go to the people and set them apart as holy today and tomorrow, and let them wash their garments; and let them be ready for the third day, for on the third day Yahweh will come down on Mount Sinai in the sight of all the people. And you shall set bounds for the people all around, saying, “Beware that you do not go up on the mountain or touch the border of it; whoever touches the mountain shall surely be put to death. No hand shall touch him, but he shall surely be stoned or surely shot through; whether beast or man, he shall not live.” When the ram’s horn sounds a long blast, they shall come up to the mountain.’ So Moses went down from the mountain to the people and set the people apart as holy, and they washed their garments. And he said to the people, ‘Be ready for the third day; do not go near a woman.’ So it happened on the third day, when it was morning, that there were thunder and lightning flashes and a thick cloud upon the mountain and a very loud trumpet sound, so that all the people who were in the camp trembled. And Moses brought the people out of the camp to meet God, and they stood at the foot of the mountain. Now Mount Sinai was all in smoke because Yahweh descended upon it in fire; and its smoke ascended like the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mountain trembled violently. And the sound of the trumpet grew louder and louder; then Moses spoke and God answered him with thunder. And Yahweh came down on Mount Sinai, to the top of the mountain; and Yahweh called Moses to the top of the mountain, and Moses went up. Then Yahweh spoke to Moses, ‘Go down, warn the people, lest they break through to Yahweh to see, and many of them perish. Also let the priests who come near to Yahweh set themselves apart as holy, lest Yahweh break out against them.’ And Moses said to Yahweh, ‘The people cannot come up to Mount Sinai, for You warned us, saying, “Set bounds about the mountain, and set it apart as holy.”’ Then Yahweh said to him, ‘Go down and come up again, you and Aaron with you; but do not let the priests and the people break through to come up to Yahweh, lest He break out against them.’ So Moses went down to the people and told them.” Exodus 19:10-25

“As for you also, because of the blood of your covenant, I have set your prisoners free from the waterless pit. Return to the stronghold, O prisoners who have the hope; This very day I am declaring that I will return double to you. For I will bend Judah as My bow; I will fill the bow with Ephraim. And I will rouse up your sons, O Zion, against your sons, O Greece; And I will make you like a mighty man’s sword. Then Yahweh will appear over them, And His arrow will go forth like lightning; And Lord Yahweh will blow the trumpet And will go in the storm winds of the south. Yahweh of hosts will defend them. And they will consume and trample on the stones of a sling; And they will drink and roar as with wine; And they will be filled like a sacrificial bowl, Drenched like the corners of the altar. And Yahweh their God will save them in that day As the flock of His people; For they are as the stones of a crown, Sparkling in His land.” Zechariah 9:11-16

“My anger burns against the shepherds, And I will visit punishment upon the male goats; For Yahweh of hosts has visited His flock, the house of Judah, And will make them like His splendid horse in battle. From them will come the cornerstone, From them the tent peg, From them the bow of battle, From them every good taskmaster, all of them together. And they will be as mighty men, Treading down the enemy in the mire of the streets in battle; And they will battle, for Yahweh will be with them; And the riders on horses will be put to shame. I will make the house of Judah mighty, And I will save the house of Joseph, And I will cause them to return, Because I have had compassion on them; And they will be as though I had not rejected them, For I am Yahweh their God, and I will answer them. And Ephraim will be like a mighty man, And their heart will be glad as if from wine; Indeed, their children will see it and be glad; Their heart will rejoice in Yahweh. I will whistle for them to gather them together, For I have redeemed them; And they will be as numerous as they were before. And I will sow them among the peoples, And they will remember Me in far countries, And they with their children will live and turn back. Then I will cause them to return from the land of Egypt And gather them from Assyria; And I will bring them into the land of Gilead and Lebanon Until no room can be found for them. And they will pass through the sea of distress, And He will strike the waves in the sea, So that all the depths of the Nile will dry up; And the pride of Assyria will be brought down, And the scepter of Egypt will depart. And I will make them mighty in Yahweh, And in His name they will walk,’ declares Yahweh.” Zechariah 10:3-12

“The oracle of the word of Yahweh concerning Israel. Thus declares Yahweh who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him, ‘Behold, I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that causes reeling to all the peoples all around. Now the one in siege against Jerusalem will also be against Judah. But it will be in that day, that I will make Jerusalem a heavy stone for all the peoples; all who heave it up will be severely injured. And all the nations of the earth will be gathered against it. In that day,’ declares Yahweh, ‘I will strike every horse with bewilderment and his rider with madness. But I will open my eyes to watch over the house of Judah, while I strike every horse of the peoples with blindness. Then the clans of Judah will say in their hearts, “A strong support for us are the inhabitants of Jerusalem through Yahweh of hosts, their God.” In that day I will make the clans of Judah like a fiery laver among pieces of wood and a fiery torch among sheaves, so they will consume on the right hand and on the left all the surrounding peoples, while Jerusalem will again be inhabited in its own place—in Jerusalem. Yahweh also will save the tents of Judah first so that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem will not be magnified above Judah. In that day Yahweh will defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and the one who stumbles among them in that day will be like David, and the house of David will be like God, like the angel of Yahweh before them. And it will be in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. And I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn.’” Zechariah 12:1-10

This explains why certain English renderings translate the verse of Zech. 3:2 in the following manner:

“Yahweh said to Satan, ‘I, Yahweh, silence you, Satan! I, Yahweh, who has chosen Jerusalem, silence you! Isn’t this man like a burning log snatched from a fire?’” NOG

“The Lord said to Satan, ‘I, the Lord, silence you, Satan! I, the Lord, who has chosen Jerusalem, silence you! Isn’t this man like a burning log snatched from a fire?’” GW

“Next the Messenger-Angel showed me the high priest Joshua. He was standing before God’s Angel where the Accuser showed up to accuse him. Then God said to the Accuser, ‘I, God, rebuke you, Accuser! I rebuke you and choose Jerusalem. Surprise! Everything is going up in flames, but I reach in and pull out Jerusalem!’” MSG

“And the Lord said to Satan, ‘I, the Lord, reject your accusations, Satan. Yes, the Lord, who has chosen Jerusalem, rebukes you. This man is like a burning stick that has been snatched from the fire.’” NLT

“Eternal One (to the Accuser): I am reprimanding you, Accuser. I, the Eternal One, have chosen Jerusalem as My own, saved her from My fiery wrath as if she were a wooden poker just pulled from destruction in a fire.” VOICE

In other words, the Angel isn’t invoking some other as YHWH to rebuke Satan. Rather, it is the Angel, who is referring to himself as YHWH in the third person, that is actually rebuking the Accuser of the brethren.

WORSHIPING YHWH’S ANGEL

Stafford appealed to Colossians 2:18 to condemn Trinitarians for worshiping the divine Angel:

“Some people enjoy pretending they aren’t proud. They worship angels. But don’t let people like that judge you. These people tell you every little thing about what they have seen. They are proud of their useless ideas. That’s because their minds are not guided by the Holy Spirit.” NIRV

He seemingly forgot or is simply unaware of the fact that the Hebrew Bible itself shows that this particular Messenger was indeed worshiped without ever rebuking folks for doing so:

“Then Yahweh exposed the eyes of Balaam, and he saw the angel of Yahweh standing in the road with his sword drawn in his hand, and he bowed down and worshiped (wayyiqqoḏ wayyishtacḥu) to his face. The angel of Yahweh said to him, ‘Why have you struck this donkey three times? Look, I have come out as an adversary because your conduct is perverse before me.’” Numbers 22:31-32 LEB

“When Joshua was near Jericho, he looked up and saw a man standing in front of him with a sword in his hand. Joshua went up to him and asked, ‘Are you one of us or one of our enemies?’He answered, “Neither one! I am here as the commander of Yahweh’s army.’ Immediately, Joshua bowed with his face touching the ground and worshiped (wayyishtacḥu). He asked, ‘Sir, what do you want to tell me?’The commander of Yahweh’s army said to Joshua, ‘Take off your sandals because this place where you are standing is holy.’ So Joshua did as he was told.” Joshua 5:13-15 NOG

Now this places Stafford in somewhat of a dilemma.

Since Stafford readily admits that the Bible prohibits the worship of angels, and since the Angel of Revelation who stands in the place of God/Christ absolutely refused to receive any kind of worship, despite his being God’s agent/emissary,

“At this I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, ‘Don’t do that! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers and sisters who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For it is the Spirit of prophecy who bears testimony to Jesus.’” Revelation 19:10 NIV

“The angel said to me, ‘These words are trustworthy and true. The Lord, the God who inspires the prophets, SENT HIS angel to show his servants the things that must soon take place.’ ‘Look, I am coming soon! Blessed is the one who keeps the words of the prophecy written in this scroll.’ I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I had heard and seen them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who had been showing them to me. But he said to me, ‘Don’t do that! I am a fellow servant with you and with your fellow prophets and with all who keep the words of this scroll. Worship God!’… ‘I, Jesus, have sent MY angelto give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.’” Revelation 22:6-9, 16 NIV

This, therefore, means that either the NT is contradicting the OT, or that YHWH’s Angel is NOT A creature. Rather, this specific Messenger is YHWH Almighty himself who is personally distinct from YHWH–which is why he can be his Messenger–while also being truly God in nature.

Hence, seeing that the Angel is God himself functioning in the role of a Messenger he, therefore, can be worshiped without this violating the Bible’s prohibiting believers from worshiping angels.

With foregoing in view make sure to read the addendum to this post: JUDE’S EPISTLE REFUTES ARIANISM.

FURTHER READING

THE RABBIS’ DILEMMA: WORSHIPING GOD’S ANGEL

CREATED ANGELIC BEINGS AS JEHOVAH GOD?

JUDE TESTIFIES: JESUS IS NOT MICHAEL!

Michael’s Contention With Satan

JUDE TESTIFIES THAT JESUS IS YHWH ALMIGHTY!

Jesus Christ: The Lord God Who Saved and Punished Israel During the Exodus

JESUS: THE ONE AND ONLY ADONAY YHWH

UNITARIANS PROVE THE FATHER ISN’T THE TRUE GOD

This post is taken from the following article: MEMRA (= “Ma’amar” or “Dibbur,” “Logos”). All emphasis is mine.

MEMRA (= “Ma’amar” or “Dibbur,” “Logos”):

By: Kaufmann Kohler

“The Word,” in the sense of the creative or directive word or speech of God manifesting His power in the world of matter or mind; a term used especially in the Targum as a substitute for “the Lord” when an anthropomorphic expression is to be avoided.

—Biblical Data:

In Scripture “the word of the Lord” commonly denotes the speech addressed to patriarch or prophet (Gen. xv. 1; Num. xii. 6, xxiii. 5; I Sam. iii. 21; Amos v. 1-8); but frequently it denotes also the creative word: “By the word of the Lord were the heavens made” (Ps. xxxiii. 6; comp. “For He spake, and it was done”; “He sendeth his word, and melteth them [the ice]”; “Fire and hail; snow, and vapors; stormy wind fulfilling his word”; Ps. xxxiii. 9, cxlvii. 18, cxlviii. 8). In this sense it is said, “For ever, O Lord, thy word is settled in heaven” (Ps. cxix. 89). “The Word,” heard and announced by the prophet, often became, in the conception of the seer, an efficacious power apart from God, as was the angel or messenger of God: “The Lord sent a word into Jacob, and it hath lighted upon Israel” (Isa. ix. 7 [A. V. 8], lv. 11); “He sent his word, and healed them” (Ps. cvii. 20); and comp. “his word runneth very swiftly” (Ps. cxlvii. 15).

Personification of the Word.—In Apocryphal and Rabbinical Literature:

While in the Book of Jubilees, xii. 22, the word of God is sent through the angel to Abraham, in other cases it becomes more and more a personified agency: “By the word of God exist His works” (Ecclus. [Sirach] xlii. 15); “The Holy One, blessed be He, created the world by the ‘Ma’amar'” (Mek., Beshallaḥ, 10, with reference to Ps. xxxiii. 6). Quite frequent is the expression, especially in the liturgy, “Thou who hast made the universe with Thy word and ordained man through Thy wisdom to rule over the creatures made by Thee” (Wisdom ix. 1; comp. “Who by Thy words causest the evenings to bring darkness, who openest the gates of the sky by Thy wisdom”; . . . “who by His speech created the heavens, and by the breath of His mouth all their hosts”; through whose “words all things were created”; see Singer’s “Daily Prayer-Book,” pp. 96, 290, 292). So also in IV Esdras vi. 38 (“Lord, Thou spakest on the first day of Creation: ‘Let there be heaven and earth,’ and Thy word hath accomplished the work”). “Thy word, O Lord, healeth all things” (Wisdom xvi. 12); “Thy word preserveth them that put their trust in Thee” (l.c. xvi. 26). Especially strong is the personification of the word in Wisdom xviii. 15: “Thine Almighty Word leaped down from heaven out of Thy royal throne as a fierce man of war.” The Mishnah, with reference to the ten passages in Genesis (ch. i.) beginning with “And God said,” speaks of the ten “ma’amarot” (= “speeches”) by which the world was created (Abot v. 1; comp. Gen. R. iv. 2: “The upper heavens are held in suspense by the creative Ma’amar”). Out of every speech [“dibbur”] which emanated from God an angel was created (Ḥag. 14a). “The Word [“dibbur”] called none but Moses” (Lev. R. i. 4, 5). “The Word [“dibbur”] went forth from the right hand of God and made a circuit around the camp of Israel” (Cant. R. i. 13).

—In the Targum:

In the Targum the Memra figures constantly as the manifestation of the divine power, or as God’s messenger in place of God Himself, wherever the predicate is not in conformity with the dignity or the spirituality of the Deity.

Instead of the Scriptural “You have not believed in the Lord,” Targ. Deut. i. 32 has “You have not believed in the word of the Lord”; instead of “I shall require it [vengeance] from him,” Targ. Deut. xviii. 19 has “My word shall require it.” “The Memra,” instead of “the Lord,” is “the consuming fire” (Targ. Deut. ix. 3; comp. Targ. Isa. xxx. 27). The Memra “plagued the people” (Targ. Yer. to Ex. xxxii. 35). “The Memra smote him” (II Sam. vi. 7; comp. Targ. I Kings xviii. 24; Hos. xiii. 14; et al.). Not “God,” but “the Memra,” is met with in Targ. Ex. xix. 17 (Targ. Yer. “the Shekinah”; comp. Targ. Ex. xxv. 22: “I will order My Memra to be there”). “I will cover thee with My Memra,” instead of “My hand” (Targ. Ex. xxxiii. 22). Instead of “My soul,” “My Memra shall reject you” (Targ. Lev. xxvi. 30; comp. Isa. i. 14, xlii. 1; Jer. vi. 8; Ezek. xxiii. 18). “The voice of the Memra,” instead of “God,” is heard (Gen. iii. 8; Deut. iv. 33, 36; v. 21; Isa. vi. 8; et al.). Where Moses says, “I stood between the Lord and you” (Deut. v. 5), the Targum has, “between the Memra of the Lord and you”; and the “sign between Me and you” becomes a “sign between My Memra and you” (Ex. xxxi. 13, 17; comp. Lev. xxvi. 46; Gen. ix. 12; xvii. 2, 7, 10; Ezek. xx. 12). Instead of God, the Memra comes to Abimelek (Gen. xx. 3), and to Balaam (Num. xxiii. 4). His Memra aids and accompanies Israel, performing wonders for them (Targ. Num. xxiii. 21; Deut. i. 30, xxxiii. 3; Targ. Isa. lxiii. 14; Jer. xxxi. 1; Hos. ix. 10 [comp. xi. 3, “the messenger-angel”]). The Memra goes before Cyrus (Isa. xlv. 12). The Lord swears by His Memra (Gen. xxi. 23, xxii. 16, xxiv. 3; Ex. xxxii. 13; Num. xiv. 30; Isa. xlv. 23; Ezek. xx. 5; et al.). It is His Memra that repents (Targ. Gen. vi. 6, viii. 21; I Sam. xv. 11, 35). Not His “hand,” but His “Memra has laid the foundation of the earth” (Targ. Isa. xlviii. 13); for His Memra’s or Name’s sake does He act (l.c. xlviii. 11; II Kings xix. 34). Through the Memra God turns to His people (Targ. Lev. xxvi. 90; II Kings xiii. 23), becomes the shield of Abraham (Gen. xv. 1), and is with Moses (Ex. iii. 12; iv. 12, 15) and with Israel (Targ. Yer. to Num. x. 35, 36; Isa. lxiii. 14). It is the Memra, not God Himself, against whom man offends (Ex. xvi. 8; Num. xiv. 5; I Kings viii. 50; II Kings xix. 28; Isa. i. 2, 16; xlv. 3, 20; Hos. v. 7, vi. 7; Targ. Yer. to Lev. v. 21, vi. 2; Deut. v. 11); through His Memra Israel shall be justified (Targ. Isa. xlv. 25); with the Memra Israel stands in communion (Targ. Josh. xxii. 24, 27); in the Memra man puts his trust (Targ. Gen. xv. 6; Targ. Yer. to Ex. xiv. 31; Jer. xxxix. 18, xlix. 11).

Mediatorship.

Like the Shekinah (comp. Targ. Num. xxiii. 21), the Memra is accordingly the manifestation of God. “The Memra brings Israel nigh unto God and sits on His throne receiving the prayers of Israel” (Targ. Yer. to Deut. iv. 7). It shielded Noah from the flood (Targ. Yer. to Gen. vii. 16) and brought about the dispersion of the seventy nations (l.c. xi. 8); it is the guardian of Jacob (Gen. xxviii. 20-21, xxxv. 3) and of Israel (Targ. Yer. to Ex. xii. 23, 29); it works all the wonders in Egypt (l.c. xiii. 8, xiv. 25); hardens the heart of Pharaoh (l.c. xiii. 15); goes before Israel in the wilderness (Targ. Yer. to Ex. xx. 1); blesses Israel (Targ. Yer. to Num. xxiii. 8); battles for the people (Targ. Josh. iii. 7, x. 14, xxiii. 3). As in ruling over the destiny of man the Memra is the agent of God (Targ. Yer. to Num. xxvii. 16), so also is it in the creation of the earth (Isa. xlv. 12) and in the execution of justice (Targ. Yer. to Num. xxxiii. 4). So, in the future, shall the Memra be the comforter (Targ. Isa. lxvi. 13): “My Shekinah I shall put among you, My Memra shall be unto you for a redeeming deity, and you shall be unto My Name a holy people” (Targ. Yer. to Lev. xxii. 12). “My Memra shall be unto you like a good plowman who takes off the yoke from the shoulder of the oxen”; “the Memra will roar to gather the exiled” (Targ. Hos. xi. 5, 10). The Memra is “the witness” (Targ. Yer. xxix. 23); it will be to Israel like a father (l.c. xxxi. 9) and “will rejoice over them to do them good” (l.c. xxxii. 41). “In the Memra the redemption will be found” (Targ. Zech. xii. 5). “The holy Word” was the subject of the hymns of Job (Test. of Job, xii. 3, ed. Kohler).

The Logos.

It is difficult to say how far the rabbinical concept of the Memra, which is used now as a parallel to the divine Wisdom and again as a parallel to the Shekinah, had come under the influence of the Greek term “Logos,” which denotes both word and reason, and, perhaps owing to Egyptian mythological notions, assumed in the philosophical system of Heraclitos, of Plato, and of the Stoa the metaphysical meaning of world-constructive and world-permeating intelligence (see Reizenstein, “Zwei Religionsgeschichtliche Fragen,” 1901, pp. 83-111; comp. Aall, “Der Logos,” and the Logos literature given by Schürer, “Gesch.” i. 3, 542-544). The Memra as a cosmic power furnished Philo the corner-stone upon which he built his peculiar semi-Jewish philosophy. Philo’s “divine thought,” “the image” and “first-born son” of God, “the archpriest,” “intercessor,” and “paraclete” of humanity, the “arch type of man” (see Philo), paved the way for the Christian conceptions of the Incarnation (“the Word become flesh”) and the Trinity. The Word which “the unoriginated Father created in His own likeness as a manifestation of His own power” appears in the Gnostic system of Marcus (Irenæus, “Adversus Hæreses,” i. 14). In the ancient Church liturgy, adopted from the Synagogue, it is especially interesting to notice how often the term “Logos,” in the sense of “the Word by which God made the world, or made His Law or Himself known to man,” was changed into “Christ” (see “Apostolic Constitutions,” vii. 25-26, 34-38, et al.). Possibly on account of the Christian dogma, rabbinic theology, outside of the Targum literature, made little use of the term “Memra.” See Logos.

Bibliography:

• Bousset, Die Religion des Judenthums im Neutestamentlichen Zeitalter, 1903, p. 341;

• Weber, Jüdische Theologie, 1897, pp. 180-184.

FURTHER READING

JEWISH SOURCES ON THE WORD AS A DIVINE PERSON

THE WORD, MESSIAH & TARGUM OF ISAIAH

METATRON IS THE WORD OF GOD?

JUDAISMS’ VIEWS ON THE MESSIAH’S PREHUMAN EXISTENCE

THE TRINITY IN THE ARAMAIC TARGUMS

GOD’S SON IN TARGUM NEOFITI REVISITED